By GuestBugs Brilliance and CeeNice
Lately, I have been hearing an increase in complaints from men about “nice guys” finishing last. For some reason, they believe that being the bad guy, or loser, or in some cases a total douche, is what women really want. Especially, the independent woman that has become increasingly popular, as desirable mates, thanks to the lovely Ms. Obama. Granted my sample of men is small, but I like the topic so we’ll go with it. For this one, I solicited the help of the Bestest– CeeNice. Be sure to click some of the links that highlighted throughout the blog.
My girls and I are probably just like you -- mostly independent women who are working their way up the career ladder.
We dream of finding the man of our dreams, yet for some reason we haven’t found him. Instead of passing the time alone, some of us date men we know aren’t good for us. The most infamous, as well as the subject of this post, is RayRay.
RayRay is generally the in-between-man, someone who you date or sleep with from time to time, but have no realistic expectation of building a relationship. CeeNice and I have dated our share of RayRays—men who were clearly not anywhere near our level financially, emotionally, spiritually, academically or intellectually.
In any case, people always wonder why a woman of our caliber would date RayRay in the first place. In fact, I’ve wondered that myself.
So we spent about an hour jotting down the pros and cons of RayRay. Surprisingly, we found that on the outside RayRay actually has some strong points.
Below are our findings. Remember these are just for fun, so don’t get offended:
1) RayRay ALWAYS hollers EVEN when he shouldn’t—Homeless, bucktooth, or wearing yesterday’s clothes, nothing but God could stop RayRay from hollering…nothing at all. RayRay figures if he hollers at ten women at least one will bite. The sad part is, he’s right. RayRay essentially has nothing to lose and he knows it.
2) RayRay is a Professional Pipe Layer—Yes we said it. If he can’t take you out to a dinner or a movie, at the bare minimum he provides good to great sex. He temporarily replaces our B.O.B., Battery Operated Boyfriend, and sometimes you need that.
3) RayRay is there when you need him—No need to coordinate schedules with this dude. Call him anytime day or night and he will be there. He also gets lost when you don’t want him any longer.
4) Despite his flaws he’s smart—He can hold a conversation, watches the news, and has relevant opinions. He’s also street smart, and you often feel safe around him.
5) He knows what he has—RayRay thinks you’re wonderful. Makes you feel like you’re the queen of the hood. He’s proud of your accomplishments and tries his best to treat you accordingly. Even if he does fall short.
On a serious tip:
RayRays come around during a time in our lives where we’re experiencing a dry spell. He just shows up on those days when we’re especially lonely and maybe a little desperate. When guys wonder how we end up with “losers” sometimes it’s simply because he hollered.
It feels good to have a guy be proud of your accomplishments. When a guy like RayRay says he can’t believe he’s talking to someone of your status it makes some of us feel good.
Overall RayRay situations rarely work. At some point you realize that he’s where he’s going to be emotionally, physically, intellectually, academically, and professionally for the rest of his life. If you want more for yourself then you will soon find yourself ready to move on.
As for the guys—If you’re a good guy with your stuff together then I encourage you to get out there and ask women out. RayRay does it without fear. You should too. In fact, a lot of us have been waiting for you our whole lives.
Well we’re done, so feel free to debate, and share your own RayRay stories in the comment section below.
RayRay also makes us feel protected... where as the Gentleman can come off so gentle that we sometimes feel (subconciously) that if shit were to ever hit the fan... he won't be able to stand up, take care of home and /or fight for us.. as much as we would love a man that could be the 2, if we have our options of 1 or the other... RayRay wins...
ReplyDeleteHowever....
This is a misconception on the ladies behalf....just becuz we never know what someone may do when pushed into a corner, so ladies while you are overlooking the gentleman for RayRay... be mindful of what your passing up... too many of us complain about RayRay when Derrick has been tryin to knock him out the box forever.
Also
The Good Guys that I kno complain have other personality flaws that go with them.... cmon.... I don't see too many well educated... good head on their shoulder, intellectual, emotionally ready men.... who are single. The ones that are single we usually meet them when they have either gotten out of a bad relationship or divorce and just aren't emotionally ready to give us what we want... at that point they usually end up hurting us.
Or
Some men just aren't as good as they think they are... you know... how every woman think she is special and that her pussy better than the last one... some men think that as long as they aren't in jail, selling drugs or would never hit a girl, ... but have no real future, doesn't wanna do anything, .. that they are good men.... or how about the men who are attentive... pays for dates and calls when he can... takes care of wife children and home..... but u sleep around, cheat and has women in every area code... they think they are good men when its not neccesarily the case.. some of these "good men" have major personality flaws... yea yea I kno the we should over look everyone bad areas and that good ole saying " if u can't handle me at my worse then u don't deserve my best" well truth be told sometimes ur worse is so bad ur good just don't cut it!
So what is the real case? Are we ladies really overlooking good men? Or are these men just not as good as they claim to be? my advice to the ladies.... don't judge a book by its cover... he may not be as gentle as he seems and to the fellas... don't let your egos eat you... take a look at your flaws... you may find some dealbreakers that are hendering your progress with the ladies
Great post Brillance and CeeNice! Thanks for submitting to JBT!
Also I forgot to add.. RayRay has swagger that sometime the "good guy" lacks.. also the good guy comes off real needy where as RayRay will tell u how good u r but also let u kno he can replace you... and as much as we don't want to admitt it ladies... we don't like the idea of another one take our spot... the more women a man has..the more his stock value rises... unfornulately... RayRay knows this and uses it to his advantage.. the example that Brillances used that RayRay hollas at 10 girls hoping to get one.... he usually get 5 or 6h out of those 10 if not 9...the good guy is the one who usually gets 1 out of the 10 if any
ReplyDelete@ Mz. Kewe, I agree with most of what you said. Most men who think they are "good" have their flaws. If we really want meaningful relationships should we compromise? I mean, at the end of the day, RayRay is not going to work out. We know this, but we date them anyways from time to time.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. I'm definitely not one of these girls. I totally prefer gentlemen, and have had many RayRays come my way but always picked the gentleman (or chose to remain single and sex-deprived). Maybe I'm just elitest, but when I see the RayRays of the world I immediately know they are not on my level (intellectually, education-wise, emotionally, spiritually, etc.), which usually prevents me from even being attracted to them. I don't even waste my time considering the possibility. I'm not THAT lonely or unhappy.
ReplyDeleteI know how to protect myself, so I don't feel the need to have a man protect me. And a man who really cares about you (gentleman or not) will, if put in the situation, protect his woman. Believe that. I often think sex is overrated, and I only want to share it with someone that I truly truly care about (esp. at this point in my life...I've had enough bad sex with people who were in some way wrong for me).
At the end of the day, I've never chosen a RayRay. I'll probably always opt for singledom over being with a RayRay. Just not my style. Not at all. (I think I actually go for the artsy-nerdy types. lol)
But interesting post. I've definitely heard discussions similar to this. I can't completely relate, but I do find it intriguing.
I'm gonna have to call ur bluff on this one girly (much love) first off almost every woman want to feel protected in some shape form or fashion... you may not want him to order your food for you... but if the Two of you are in bed and both of you hear a strange noise... who do you expect to get up and check it out and make sure everything is ok? Its in our nature to want to feel as if he can protect you in some level... whether he needs to or not
ReplyDeleteAnd second... I don't care what anyone says SEX AIN'T OVERRATED!!!!!!!!! LMBO!!!!! :P
I feel you thou Ms Berneta for sticking to your standards no matter what! Too many women don't and make the mistake of having any man over no man... which I don't understand...so BRAVO! Your mentality should serve as a role model for other women
As for me personally... if I mess with RayRay.. he will only be A Pipe Layer and that's it! I'm not havin his baby... he's not meeting my parents and he def ain't gettin the priviledge of being my man! And personally I don't feel anythings wrong with that... cuz I kno for a fact that this won't go any further than that!
Holla! Lol
Lol, Mz Kewe. I actually had this conversation with a friend recently, who was trying to explain her attraction to this man: she said she was mostly attracted to him because she'd never met anyone before that she felt could protect her and make her feel totally safe. I was pretty baffled by her response, because being surrounded by feminists and feminist-minded academics, I didn't know any of my friends would harbor or ever express such feelings.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't look for a man to protect me, and I really think that's because I've never had it. I come from a family of women (my mom and her 7 sisters). My mother raised us by herself (with my aunt's help). My aunt, a very unorthodox woman, who is still single at 47 years old and apparently comfortable with that, had a huge impression on me. The kind of woman who will talk shit to any man in order to protect herself. She's had to threaten one of my mother's boyfriends at gunpoint. So I think she rubbed off.
I believe that women should feel secure in their bodies (partly why I used to take Taekwando and Yoga), and that when we have that, the desire for a man to protect us goes away. Also, I avoid nature arguments as a rule, because as a psychology major I learned that there will always be exceptions to the rule when we're talking about human behavior. I don't think women naturally expect a man to protect them. I totally think that that is (at least partly) a learned behavior or mindset. And either I unlearned it or never learned it at all. I don't know. Long, rambling response, I know. lol.
This is also why I think less progressive-minded (or feminist-minded) men (like 90% of men probably) are eventually put off by me. In other words, I do think men (on some level) like being able to protect women, and they like women who give off that need of being protected. (On the other hand, there are a lot of men who resent women who put that kind of pressure on them.) I think I confuse men, because I'm very feminine and prissy and small (5'6, 114 pounds) and, as such, stereotypically I give off that kind of vibe of wanting/needing to be protected. Physically, I look fragile and vulnerable. Then, they realize they have misread me, at which point they become both confused and curious, until they ultimately back off (and we end up in best friends mode). Apparently, I make a kickass best friend to a lot of guys. Sigh. But that's just my personality, I guess. My mom is pretty convinced that I should just stick to dating women. :D
ReplyDelete@Miss Berneta...your comment about dating women is a good (future) topic. I came across this question that was posed to black women-- are our experiences and lack of good & available black men driving black women to become lesbians and/or dating women?
ReplyDelete@Brilliance and CeeNice, great job on the blog. This is definitely an interesting topic, and I can admit to having my own experiences with RayRay (which I choose not to discuss on the worldwide web). LOL!
ReplyDelete@Mz. Kewe You're a mess, girl. LMBO! I do agree that some women who are dying not to be single have to get off their high horses and really assess what they have to offer along with what their potential partners bring to the table. Having standards and being compatible are one thing, but disqualifying a candidate because he does not meet all of the characteristics on a checklist is something different. We have to take into account things that maybe RayRay won't like about us and commend him for dealing with it in spite of, don't we?
@Berneta I don't know if I have an all out prissy exterior, but I do think men are put off by my ability to handle my own. I think some men like to feel needed and I haven't mastered the craft of ego-stroking. So like you, I've embraced singledom until...IDK! Having this time away from dating, I have had an opportunity to evaluate and do some of the things that fulfill me, which I didn't really do in the past. I seemed to get lost in my relationships, and the break has allowed me to get to know me. Lol! I'm also tired of what I call "stupid sex," which isn't meaningful or with a person I truly care for. For that reason, I've remained abstinent for nearly two years now.
@Candice All I can say is "Wow!"
In closing, I'd like to pose a different question. How would we all feel about being treated like RayRay; never taken seriously, only called upon when services are needed, etc.?
@Candice: That IS a very interesting topic! Though I do think that it is little inaccurate, the assumption that many black women are choosing women because of a scarcity of men. That's really not it. There are a variety of reasons. But, we should do a post on this topic, definitely. Black women who date women are totally overlooked.
ReplyDelete@Mashari: That is a good question! Seriously. I almost feel sorry for RayRay, would never want to be treated in such a belittling way. But, hey, if RayRay wants to be taken seriously, he needs to take himself and his life and the women in his life seriously.
Hey Berneta I agree.. I don't think that that is the SOLE reason why women date women although I have heard some stories... but I think those women may have been on the fence anyway lol
ReplyDeleteAnd who said RayRay was a bad guy??? Some RayRay do take their women seriously... they just don't add up in the end... and other RayRay are players... not every RayRay is a dog... maybe RayRay doesn't want to a college education or to be an executive... can u really knock him if he's comfortable... I think not... he just not the right man for you
That's true, Mz. Kewe. You caught me in my bourgie moment. (blushing) If he feels like he's succeeded in making the life he wants for himself, that's what matters. It might just mean, like you said, he's just not the right man for me.
ReplyDeleteI read the blog through my phone but was unable to post my comment. Being honest I've had a Ray Ray before. First off he was a gentle man to heart! He made sure I didn't need or want for nothing. However, as time passed crap starting coming to light. Such as no diploma/GED, felonies and no job. @The time I was 19, fulltime mom,employee and student... See More. We were casually dating but I didn't have time to do a background check. When plans were on for a date he was there always to pay and compliment me. At this time in my life this was cool. In addition, my RayRay never asked me for anything. As time passed (3months) I'm like I can't take you home to my parents or my kids. His crap started to get old. Should have known up front he wasn't worth it when he started to say I was snoody or thought I was better than the next! I'm none of that I was raised with what we call standards. Lookiong back on my RayRay and knowing what I want in a real man he was not relationship material. I learned from that mistake! Glad you decided to have RayRay as a topic because some women now find this exceptable and if feelings get involved it may end in disappointment! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteSean via Facebook
I'm confused... I thought RayRay didn't disguise himself... does RayRay lead a double life? Imma need some more clarification on who RayRay is? Cuz I thought RayRay was a D Boi from the block and they usually keep it 100 upfront with everything (unless he has an STD)
ReplyDeleteIf my idea of RayRay is right.. then sean u was dealing with a Bitch Ass Ninja! Not RayRay lol but don't worryh.... I've dated more of my fair share of them too! Haha
Interesting comments! I've also dated a Ray-Ray or two in my time...but I prefer to deem them with code names instead... :). My question is, when you entertain a 'Ray-Ray' in whatever capacity, does that make you a 'Raquanda??' In my experience, like attracts like...
ReplyDeleteMz.Kewe, RayRay is any guy you meet that is not on your level emotionally, spiritually, financially, academically, professionally, and socially.
ReplyDeleteHe can be a D-boy, B.A.N.s, Wal-Mart worker, or any other type of dude that is not on your level and may never be.
He generally doesn't know he's RayRay. lol He thinks he has a winning shot of being your baby daddy. You're the one he's not used to dating. The one who has her ish together.
@ Anonymous, Thank you for your comment. RayRays rarely work out. Even I have been through a situation where I actually liked a RayRay. Like you pointed out, after about three months of messing with him its gets old. You realize there is nothing there. And you're right, RayRays do help you figure out what you absolutely need in a solid relationship.
ReplyDelete@ Ms. Qui, With RayRays it's always a case of when opposites attract. If you are a woman who expects more from you're man it will never work out. You become Raquanda, if you decide that he's boyfriend material. Then at that point you may be two peas in a pod. lol
ReplyDeleteI love this article! Its soo true and accurate! I just left me first and last rayray! Though it lasted longer than it ever should it definitely taught me a lot of things about myself and core values that I seem to have lost for a moment!
ReplyDeleteErica via Facebook
@Ms Qui Vive While I can't speak for everyone, I can honestly say that my previous involvement with RayRays (without strings) were directly related to an internal issue. Maybe I was inexperienced, lonely, had low self-esteem, etc. Whatever the case maybe, now it's a totally different story. The quality and substance of men approaching me or wanting to be apart of my life reflects just that.
ReplyDeleteSo ima gonna play devils advocate here... let's pretend that I'm a ghetto broad that only wants to date ghettoe niggas.. and a well educated "square boy" wants to date me but my standards are hood niggas.... would that make the square boy RayRay?
ReplyDelete